The Christian-Muslim dialogue of December 2003: the historic event in Tampa By Sayyed.

            Generations to come will remember the event which took place at the Best Western Hotel at 1200 North Westshore Boulevard in Tampa, Florida, USA after 6:30 pm on Thursday 4^th December, 2003. In following the tradition of Mubahila (and the Ahlul Bait or family of the household Prophet Muhammad (saw)) which took place on 10 A.H. (After Hijrah) against the Christians of Najran headed by Abdul Mashih, their chief Monk Priest, who came to discuss the personality of Prophet Jesus (AS) with Prophet Muhammad (saw); 1424 years afterwards, in 2003 A.D., Shia Muslims of the Jamaat (community of Muslims) called Madinatul ILm of Tampa, Florida led by Maulana Mirza Muhammad Ali Baig met with the Christians led by Dr. Daniel Ebert, sponsored by the SOS Ministries (the SOS ministries are non-denominational as they work with all Churches and they are Right wing Conservative Christians) for a lecture on C¦hristianity, the Holy Bible and the personality of Jesus (AS), its founder?as well as, Islam, the Quran and Muhammad, founder of Islam? The lecture was chaired by Mr. Mike Schadt. While both sides presented their religions, holy books and Prophets; it seemed clear that Dr. Ebert took a very controversial stand defending Christianity from the outset and ended up by being conciliatory and giving an evangelical style of speech making.  

            Dr. Daniel Ebert spoke first and his credentials were mentioned as such: born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA but moved to the Philippines and lived there for 14 years (from 1977 to 1990). Dr. Ebert has a B.A. in Biblical Literature; an MA in divinity from the Asian Theological Seminary in Theology; a T. HM from Biblical Theological Seminary in the New Testament; a PHD from Trinity International University in Theology and presently, serves as a Professor at Clearwater Christian College while living in Clearwater, Florida. Dr. Ebert is married and has 4 children. On the Muslim side, Maulana Mirza Muhammad Ali Baig, who was born in Hyderabad, India. In 1989 Maulana Baig studied at the Islamic Seminary of New York and received a BA in Islamic Studies and in 1994 he studied for 6 years in Iran at the Center for Islamic Studies. Maulana Baig is currently an Imam of a Mosque in Tampa called Madinatul ILm and he resides in Tampa with his wife and three children. At two times in two private meetings it was agreed by all concerned that this would be a lecture and not a debate. In fact, definitions of a lecture and a debate were given by Mr. Mike Schadt citing the Webster Dictionary as being an exposition of a certain subject before an audience for instruction?whereas; a debate is to engage in argument by discussing opposing points.?While it was stressed in private and in public that this night was a lecture not a debate?and that his is a lecture for instructional purposes,?two minutes into Dr. Ebert speech he began addressing the conflict between Christianity and Islam thus, breaking the agreement and credibility of the event itself. Throughout his presentation, Dr. Ebert literally defended Christianity rather than merely presented Christianity, the Holy Bible and the personality of Jesus (AS), its founder, as was originally agreed in both private and public meetings.

            Dr. Ebert, for 53 minutes presented more of a debate than a lecture starting with the conflict between Islam and Christianity to the distinct nature of Christianity from Islam as well as specific criticisms made against Christianity. He began with citing Psalm 100 and would end with it also. Dr. Ebert highlighted three main points from that citation as: (1) God is the creator and ruler of all; (2) God is good and we should be thankful to God; and (3) God is merciful and God is truth. Dr. Ebert even sighted the Holy Quran where Muslims say in almost all the Suras (Chapters) God is merciful too.?He even cited Sura 29 (ayah or line 46) ?And) dispute not with the people of the Book except?in a fair manner (sic, those of them who act unjustly, and say ye (unto the people). Dr. Ebert also compares the New Testament in Peter 3:15 where he says:always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who ask you to give a reason for the hope you have but do this with gentleness and respect.?While he went on to mention the ?6 books of the Old and New Testament?to which followers of Jesus believe in?and they accept the 39 books of the Old Testament?and that Jesus himself¸promised that when he return to heaven that the spirit would lead his disciples unto all truth. They then wrote the 27 books of the New Testament.?He even insisted that at the end of the New Testament we find that it says we are not to add or take away anything from God completed work. He then began to highlight problems between Christianity and Islam thus, deviating from the originally agreed program by highlighting specifically three general problems followed by smaller lesser fully explained problems such as (1) the credibility of the Holy Bible itself as the word of God from non-Christians; (2) the existence of contradictions in the Holy Bible. Dr. Ebert even admitted to manuscript problems especially relating to Numbers?in the Holy Bible; and (3) problems of translations-many versions of English translations of the Bible.

In order to defend these criticisms he sighted non-Christians?criticisms and he spoke about scrolls that were found proving the authenticity of the Bible. However, Dr. Ebert did not highlight the similarities between the Muslims and Christians directly but in the speech given by Maulana Baig, it was clear that Christianity had more in common than is often thought and proof of these were stated while the good Doctor was defending Christianity unknowingly, perhaps? Examples include the fact that the way a Muslim reads the Quran and a Christian reads the Bible is based on beliefs,?indeed simply understand them as intended?this way. Along a defensive posture of his lecture? Dr. Ebert mentioned a book written by a Muslim named Shabir Ali called A 101 CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE and he mentioned that this resulted in a counter by the Christian named Jake Smith with his book called A 101 CLEARED UP CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE. He went on to say that liberal intellectuals?were the ones behind criticisms of both the Quran and Bible simply because they do not believe in God,?a point he would find favor among the Shias too but he went on to highlight the Muslim criticisms and that those who do not believe in God?also do not believe in special revelations. They do not believe in prophecy. They do not believe in Prophets. So they criticize the Bible.?Dr. Ebert said, not a Muslim will take the criticisms from an unbelieving man about the Bible, those are not really good evidences and the same goes for the Quran.? He said that there are many translations in English?about the Quran and they are not all the same?and said that Christians have the same problem with the translations in English.?Often he has taken misunderstandings himself from so-called Muslim experts but in Maulana Baigs presentation this incorrect statement was corrected not by design but by sticking to the agreement and certainly the topic at hand.

            In another attempt to defend Christianity he spoke of some say the Bible has been abrogated?and that we believe that God word cannot be abrogated, corrected or changed beginning with Moses all the way down to the Injeel (New Testament). It can be fulfilled, there is a progressive revelation but it cannot be abrogated.?Then after 1 hour and 35 minutes into a taped recording of his speech, he finally identifies his topic at hand by saying?That brings us to our second topic. First topic, the Bible, the basis of Christianity. The Second topic then is Jesus.?Again he stated something that Islam has no debate over although this was not a debate, and that is, he said :The Bible reveals Jesus as God itself revelation? Indeed, for Shia Muslims, the Ahlul Bait (AS) or Household of Prophet Muhammad (saw) (including of course the Holy Imams from Imam Ali (AS) down to the awaited Imam Mahdi (AS)) is the Self revelation of God as proof of God supremacy over His creations including the Prophets (AS). Another thing which Dr. Ebert shared that also has acceptance in Islam was the definition of a Prophet as being of (1) someone who did not disagree with the previous revelations or in his words,?his doctrine cannot contradict what God has said before,?and (2) that his claim to be a Prophet must be verified by the signs of God as in the fulfillment of prophecies and do miracles.?Dr. Ebert was very clear when he said that Jesus is God self revelation in its most supreme form.?

Continuing along the path of a debate rather than a lecture, Dr. Ebert

                        Maulana Baig showed that not just in Islamic ideology but in our goals, we see similarities with the Christians.Muslims and Christians,?he said We are waiting for Jesus. When Jesus comes back he will establish God Kingdom on earth. Since both religions are waiting for the same person to come back, we should be working hand in hand (together) in trying to establish righteousness.?Maulana Baig also stated correcting what Mr. Mike Schadt had said to him once that hate is the fastest growing religion?by saying instead, the fastest growing religion in the World today is ungodliness.?

                        The lecture entered a question and answer period in which questions were chosen, giving each speaker questions: QUESTION 1: TO Maulana Baig by Rick Jaken who asked, in many places in the Bible i.e Isaiah 42 God states the true God predicts the future while false gods cannot, 27% of the Bible roughly over 1800 prophecies is prophetic with a 100% accuracy. I am aware of only one short term prophecy in the Quran. Why is this??Maulana responds by saying, ... you see the Bible is a compilation of not just the Old Testament, the New Testament and also the Psalms of David. In the old days when the Prophets used to come more often and the era of their advent was closer there were a lot of prophecies because prophecies are made to establish Prophet hood of a Prophet and as we see that these prophecies were made for the next Prophet that was coming and the next Prophet that was coming but as man advanced and there were lesser and fewer Prophets in between we see that those prophecies slowly became fewer and when the time came for the last messenger, as we believe that is Muhammad and there is no other Prophet coming after him hence, there is no need to prophesize of another Prophet coming because there is no other Prophet coming. The only prophecy we have is for man  ultimate achievement of God goal that God gave to mankind which is the establishment of His Kingdom and hence we have many prophecies that are related to that and those events havent yet happened. And hence we see that the reason why there are so few prophecies is that we believe all the other prophecies were made so that people can recognize the last messenger and hence, when the last messenger came he will show you unto all truth and hence the truth was establish and now it was to establish it throughout the world and that is of course the education and training of human beings as they grow closer to God. QUESTION 1: to Dr. Daniel Ebert, from Ellenson why is Jesus the only way to be saved from Sin? Is there any other way?? Dr. Ebert says, Its got two parts.  There are two ways of answering the question, why Jesus is the only way? One is the way God established His word. If we begin in Genesis with the very first prophecy concerning God solution to the sin problem when the curse was placed on Adam and Eve because of sin. In Genesis we read that a prophecy was made that the seed of the woman would have its heel bruised by satan but that the seed of the woman would crush the head of satan. And so from the very beginning God design once sin entered the World was to solve the sin problem and defeat evil through the Messiah and the rest of the Old Testament promises in prophesies point then to the coming Messiah who would deal with the sin problem. The passage in Isaiah 53 is one stop along the way so Jesus is the way to deal with the sin problem number one because thats the way God designed it in scriptures but secondly its because and this is really why we affirm the true nature of Jesus from the unique nature of Jesus, he is the only one who was perfect and if someone else would pay for sin or would die for sin the person himself would be a sinner and would be imperfect. His sacrifice was a perfect sacrifice that was adequate. Is there any other way? Jesus said I am the way to truth and the light and no man come to the Father through me and the early apostles said there are no other names given in heaven so from the point of view from the Injeel, there is no other way to deal with the sin problem and God has given us a perfect way.

                        QUESTION 2: To Maulana Baig from Robert D. In Islam how can my sins be forgiven?? By asking for it.?Maulana began to explain that in Islam we are told to ask for forgiveness and it comes in many levels. At a basic level we ask for sins but those people at a higher level also ask for forgiveness but for the realization that they are closer to God. Even when someone close to God has forgotten for a short time to remember God they will ask for forgiveness for that. Everything other than God is in need for forgiveness?anything that has a point of origin is in need of forgiveness from God.?QUESTION 2: to Dr. Ebert from Sarah,That does it mean that Jesus is God only begotten son?? Thats a good question..?Dr. Ebert explained that he already explained it in his presentation but also drew reference to, even if you do away with the word begotten?you still have to deal with the issue of the son. Referring to various translations as the King James version of the New Testament but recent translations has one and only or unique?in John 3:16 is not only begetting as in the sense of giving birth to but on God unique son.

                        QUESTION 3: For Maulana Baig, from Mohammed Rasheed, you have eloquently demonstrated God uniqueness based on His perfection as humans are not perfect. Does that mean that God is not a perfect creator who has created imperfect products? Maulana explained that?when we say that God is unique it means that yes, everything else is imperfect than God.?Is it because God is perfect that makes everything else imperfect and its because of His perfection that everything else is imperfect.?QUESTION 3: to Dr. Ebert, from Assad, you stated that Christians will also stand before God to be judged. Why are they being judged and for what are they being judged? According to the Christian Beliefs God sacrificed himself for your sins. Dr, Ebert explains that we will all face judgment someday but when He does that the Injeel promises Christians to be forgiven for their sins. He also explained that Christians will never be judged for our sins because the sin judgment has been taken by Christ?but are judged for our service not for our sins,?he said.